Season Expectations

[MooseDuck]

Much as we lament the Ducks Awful Start Lets look at this season. Ducks have time to Utilize to Improve Right now its important this team shows some LIFE, BE ACTIVE in the Offensive Front and LAY THE Beatdown for those that stand in our way. I expect Z,Terry and few others to put in more Effort.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

[Fisix]

On 10/25/2022 at 2:32 PM, MooseDuck said:

It should.....there is rumor I hear our Ducks may want to sign Klingberg to extension But nothing is new.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

hope not.  he hasn't been helpful anywhere i look.

[MooseDuck]

11 minutes ago, Fisix said:

hope not.  he hasn't been helpful anywhere i look.

Try Just hope Patience is not going to be trusted.

DuckPride 4ever

MooseDuck

[Jasoaks]

23 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

The Rangers have rebuilt a totally different way than what the Ducks are doing. Zibanejad, Trouba, Fox, and Lindgren were all acquired via trade (with most of those being absolute robberies by the Rangers). Panarin, Trochek, and most of their bottom-6 were all UFA signings. Unlike the Ducks, that's a lot of high end talent that has been brought in from outside the organization. And so far they've hit on hardly any of their own draft picks, except the one guy who matters - Igor Shesterkin. The Rangers have a pretty average defense and they'd probably be a middle of the road team if they didn't have one of the top-2 goaltenders on the planet (the other one being in Tampa). It'd be great if GMPV could find one of the best goaltenders in the world in the draft. He could rebuild however he wants if the Ducks had one of those. 

ok fair haha

ugh I actually forgot about how solid their F group is, too...but i think the big take away is their GM's ability to adapt to what is going on with the team. Not hitting on their draft picks, so making the big trades. Hit on their goalie, so, don't do anything there haha

[tommer-1]

On 10/25/2022 at 4:14 PM, dtsdlaw said:

Manson had a really tough run of injuries during the two seasons before he was traded and he also had that pesky 12-team NTC that hindered a move during the pandemic. So circumstances have to be factored in there.  I know the organization loved him and there's a good chance he wasn't going anywhere even if all things were groovy, but we'll never truly know what the market was for him during the seasons when he was injured. And Lindholm never should have been moved, aging curves be damned. His extension was affordable and our defense completely sucks without him. Drysdale's development is also in danger of taking a huge step back now that he's gone. And where is Lindholm's replacement in our system? Nowhere to be found. It's a glaring hole that you highlighted above when you mentioned that the Ducks have no analog to Thomas Chabot. 

To me, early on, this has been Verbeek's biggest failure.  The trade of Lindholm is inexcusable - if you don't replace him, and if you can't replace him then you pay him.

[tommer-1]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:15 PM, g20topdogg said:

I would sign O'Reilly. He's one of the last of those old school hard nose players like Getzy. But you're right, that isn't very appealing. 

Here's the thing that plays into getting good UFAs - not counting the fact that there are less than one for every other team this coming offseason.

 

The "F" part.  Free.

Artemi Panarin and Adam Fox were both only every going to play for ONE team - the New York Rangers.  So in the span of just two years, the Rangers draft Lafreniere #1 OA (2020), Kakko #2 OA (2019), and simply "invite" Panarin (2019) and Fox (2019) onto their roster.

The Ducks will never be in that position.

[tommer-1]

On 10/25/2022 at 8:47 PM, perry_mvp said:

I think Pastarnak is going to be looking for a big pay day. The problem is see with him is future longevity. He's already played 516 regular season NHL games so far and this is his 9th NHL season. That's a lot of wear and tear if you include 70 post season games. I still think the guy to go for if available would be DeBrincat. He and Zegras could be tearing it up for the next 8 years.

BOS will pay him.

[tommer-1]

On 10/25/2022 at 8:47 PM, perry_mvp said:

I think Pastarnak is going to be looking for a big pay day. The problem is see with him is future longevity. He's already played 516 regular season NHL games so far and this is his 9th NHL season. That's a lot of wear and tear if you include 70 post season games. I still think the guy to go for if available would be DeBrincat. He and Zegras could be tearing it up for the next 8 years.

RFA.  So they would either have to trade for his rights or offer sheet him.  Highly unlikely.

[tommer-1]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:32 PM, bufbarnaby said:

Tie Domi is the father , I saw him play in 1993 , 29 YEARS AGO for Toronto vs Mighty Ducks. At the Arrowhead pond. Surprised he is still playing. Must be oldest player in NHL history.😆

Hahahaha. Whoops!

Max.

[tommer-1]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:46 AM, Gorbachav55 said:

I don't think Lindholm is going to age as well as you think he will or that cap problems will all be a thing of the past in five years.  By the time the team is making the playoffs, he'll be a 2nd pairing guy.  

As I've consistently maintained, I was comfortable either way.  Had we retained him, it would have solved a temporary problem (that's not REALLY a problem when the team isn't trying to compete) but potentially created a long-term one.  By not retaining him, Verbeek will have to work harder and get more creative to solve that problem in the next couple of years.  But I do think it's a problem that can be solved.  Guys who can do what Lindholm can do aren't nearly as rare as true #1 guys.

There was nothing wrong with trading him.  The mistake was in trading him without replacing him.

[dtsdlaw]

3 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

There was nothing wrong with trading him.  The mistake was in trading him without replacing him.

GMPV should have at least offer sheeted Nic Hague when he had the chance. Kulikov is not even worth the future considerations we gave up for him.

[g20topdogg]

13 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

Here's the thing that plays into getting good UFAs - not counting the fact that there are less than one for every other team this coming offseason.

 

The "F" part.  Free.

Artemi Panarin and Adam Fox were both only every going to play for ONE team - the New York Rangers.  So in the span of just two years, the Rangers draft Lafreniere #1 OA (2020), Kakko #2 OA (2019), and simply "invite" Panarin (2019) and Fox (2019) onto their roster.

The Ducks will never be in that position.

Only if we 'invite' one brother to get another better one....

[tommer-1]

Just now, g20topdogg said:

Only if we 'invite' one brother to get another better one....

"Yes, operator, Dylan Strome's home, please."

[g20topdogg]

1 minute ago, tommer-1 said:

"Yes, operator, Dylan Strome's home, please."

That could work but unfortunately we could have gotten him this ufa period and we weren't able to....

[g20topdogg]

If only we could get a hold of one of the Hughes brothers lol

[tommer-1]

Just now, g20topdogg said:

If only we could get a hold of one of the Hughes brothers lol

They could have.  Luke, instead of McTavish.

[Gorbachav55]

49 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:

There was nothing wrong with trading him.  The mistake was in trading him without replacing him.

I think that's true, but I don't think it had to be immediate.  I thought Kulikov would be a decent stopgap until a true replacement could be found.  Not replacing Lindholm isn't an issue yet.  For me, the blame still lies on Eakins not getting anywhere near the best out of these guys.  If there's a failure of Verbeek's, it's in retaining Eakins.

But that's only a failure if this season is doing long-term damage to the young players, which we won't know for a couple years.  Kulikov sucking is painful to watch, but it's not relevant to the team's long-term outlook.

[Gorbachav55]

47 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

GMPV should have at least offer sheeted Nic Hague when he had the chance. Kulikov is not even worth the future considerations we gave up for him.

I find it hard to blame any individual GM for not using the offersheet.  Of course, they all should more liberally.  But the only ones who do are involved in the Carolina-Montreal peeing match.

[dtsdlaw]

8 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:

I find it hard to blame any individual GM for not using the offersheet.  Of course, they all should more liberally.  But the only ones who do are involved in the Carolina-Montreal peeing match.

I'd actually love it if Verbeek tried something against McCrimmon. The Dadonov trade should have been the opening salvo for a GM brawl between those two. I'm slightly bummed there was no follow up from the Ducks.

[Gorbachav55]

38 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:

I'd actually love it if Verbeek tried something against McCrimmon. The Dadonov trade should have been the opening salvo for a GM brawl between those two. I'm slightly bummed there was no follow up from the Ducks.

I'm with you.  It's a bummer that there's this tool in their toolbox that GMs just ignore unless they're trying to tick someone off.  But it's like a GM cold war.  They're afraid that the first person to lob an offersheet bomb is going to incite a free agent nuclear winter.

[tommer-1]

So next season the D corps will be Fowler, Drysdale, Benoit, Vakaanianen (?), Colton White (?) and who else?

Because as far as I can gather reading the tea leaves, the other guys currently playing - Klingberg, Kulikov, The Shatt, Beaulieu - will not be getting new contracts from the Ducks.

[tommer-1]

7 games in.

16 GF, 32 GA

 

So, basically, after 7 games, they are losing every game 2-4 on average (snuck in a super lucky win there Opening Night, but you get the drift).

So in reference to the name of this thread, no, that was not my expectation for this season.  I was hoping for maybe 4-3-0, 3-3-1 or something like that.

[tommer-1]

Ducks D corps:

6 total points - ZERO goals - in 7 games

Absolutely tragic.

[dtsdlaw]

1 hour ago, tommer-1 said:

So next season the D corps will be Fowler, Drysdale, Benoit, Vakaanianen (?), Colton White (?) and who else?

Because as far as I can gather reading the tea leaves, the other guys currently playing - Klingberg, Kulikov, The Shatt, Beaulieu - will not be getting new contracts from the Ducks.

Add Drew Helleson. I am going to keep pumping this guy's tires until you all see what I see. I watch Gulls games on local TV  down here and I love his game. So smooth in transition. So smart with the puck. Great situational awareness and positioning. Don't expect big offensive numbers from him, but I think he's going to be one of those solid 20-30 point #4 D-types that will perfectly compliment an offensively-minded guy like Zellweger or Mintyukov. Helleson (RHD) will be like Marcus Pettersson but with better puck skills and better skating. He turns 22 in March and I think he'll be ready for the big show next season. I'm really looking forward to seeing him in Anaheim after Klingberg is traded at the deadline (or maybe sooner if the Ducks keep up their current pace).

They'll still need another top-4 LHD though. Maybe next summer GMPV pulls the trigger on Scandella?

Edited October 28, 2022 by dtsdlaw

[gotchabari]

19 hours ago, tommer-1 said:

There was nothing wrong with trading him.  The mistake was in trading him without replacing him.

They are doing so.  Several Lindholm possibilities in the farm.

[Gorbachav55]

15 hours ago, tommer-1 said:

So next season the D corps will be Fowler, Drysdale, Benoit, Vakaanianen (?), Colton White (?) and who else?

Because as far as I can gather reading the tea leaves, the other guys currently playing - Klingberg, Kulikov, The Shatt, Beaulieu - will not be getting new contracts from the Ducks.

You are assuming the Ducks make zero moves in the offseason.  If you'd done this at the end of last season, it would have been: Fowler, Drysdale, Shattenkirk, Vaakainen, Benoit, Helleson?  But they signed Klingberg and Kulikov.

I doubt it's Verbeek's plan to punt entirely on defense.  I expect one fairly big move in the offseason for a defender, whether through free agency or trade.  And Zellweger also looks like a favorite to make the team out of camp.  Plus there's Drew Helleson.  If you can upgrade the right side of the defense next offseason (I'm going to continue to pump Severson), you could have something like this:

Fowler - Drysdale

Zellweger - Severson

Vaakainen/Benoit - Helleson

That's not going to be good (unless Helleson is the next coming of Ray Bourque, as dts predicts), but it's going to be better than this year, particularly if they get a new coach.  And hopefully the kids develop well enough that it's a good defense by the year after, especially if you can add one more body there.

This is a goofy comparison because I don't expect anything close to this level of success, but all we've got right now is hope.  That defense in the 24-25 season, in terms of age and experience, does not look all that different from the 14-15 Ducks team that almost went to the Cup final. This is sorted in terms of minutes played with age in parentheses.

14-15 Beauchemin (34), Lindholm (21), Vatanen (23), Fowler (23), Despres (23), Stoner (29)

24-25 Fowler (33), Severson (29), Drysdale (22), Zellweger (21), Helleson (23), ????

Of course that 24-25 defense assumes a lot.  It assumes we get a player like Severson.  It assumes those kids all pan out.  But it doesn't require that much imagination to think that's a solid defense corps.  Of course, to be successful, that team would need a very good forward group, which is another question entirely. 

But all questions will be answered when we win the draft lottery.

[yeaitsme]

19 hours ago, Gorbachav55 said:

I'm with you.  It's a bummer that there's this tool in their toolbox that GMs just ignore unless they're trying to tick someone off.  But it's like a GM cold war.  They're afraid that the first person to lob an offersheet bomb is going to incite a free agent nuclear winter.

This. As well as the fact you’re probably ruining any sort of relationship with the team you Offersheeted front office , and probably take a big hit to your reputation/standing with all the others GM’s in the league. It’s tricky waters to navigate, but I mean we’re all here to win at all costs, are we not? 

[dtsdlaw]

2 hours ago, gotchabari said:

They are doing so.  Several Lindholm possibilities in the farm.

Who?

[tommer-1]

17 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:

Add Drew Helleson. I am going to keep pumping this guy's tires until you all see what I see. I watch Gulls games on local TV  down here and I love his game. So smooth in transition. So smart with the puck. Great situational awareness and positioning. Don't expect big offensive numbers from him, but I think he's going to be one of those solid 20-30 point #4 D-types that will perfectly compliment an offensively-minded guy like Zellweger or Mintyukov. Helleson (RHD) will be like Marcus Pettersson but with better puck skills and better skating. He turns 22 in March and I think he'll be ready for the big show next season. I'm really looking forward to seeing him in Anaheim after Klingberg is traded at the deadline (or maybe sooner if the Ducks keep up their current pace).

They'll still need another top-4 LHD though. Maybe next summer GMPV pulls the trigger on Scandella?

Yeah, I'm pumped to see him in Anaheim.  Of course, I'm also EXTREMELY wary of getting my expectations too high.

[tommer-1]

1 hour ago, Gorbachav55 said:

You are assuming the Ducks make zero moves in the offseason.  If you'd done this at the end of last season, it would have been: Fowler, Drysdale, Shattenkirk, Vaakainen, Benoit, Helleson?  But they signed Klingberg and Kulikov.

I doubt it's Verbeek's plan to punt entirely on defense.  I expect one fairly big move in the offseason for a defender, whether through free agency or trade.  And Zellweger also looks like a favorite to make the team out of camp.  Plus there's Drew Helleson.  If you can upgrade the right side of the defense next offseason (I'm going to continue to pump Severson), you could have something like this:

Fowler - Drysdale

Zellweger - Severson

Vaakainen/Benoit - Helleson

That's not going to be good (unless Helleson is the next coming of Ray Bourque, as dts predicts), but it's going to be better than this year, particularly if they get a new coach.  And hopefully the kids develop well enough that it's a good defense by the year after, especially if you can add one more body there.

This is a goofy comparison because I don't expect anything close to this level of success, but all we've got right now is hope.  That defense in the 24-25 season, in terms of age and experience, does not look all that different from the 14-15 Ducks team that almost went to the Cup final. This is sorted in terms of minutes played with age in parentheses.

14-15 Beauchemin (34), Lindholm (21), Vatanen (23), Fowler (23), Despres (23), Stoner (29)

24-25 Fowler (33), Severson (29), Drysdale (22), Zellweger (21), Helleson (23), ????

Of course that 24-25 defense assumes a lot.  It assumes we get a player like Severson.  It assumes those kids all pan out.  But it doesn't require that much imagination to think that's a solid defense corps.  Of course, to be successful, that team would need a very good forward group, which is another question entirely. 

But all questions will be answered when we win the draft lottery.

I'm not assuming anything, outside of thinking that most of the guys - if not all - on expiring contracts will not be coming back.  I'm asking who else is going to be brought in, because they need help.

Zellweger and Helleson and Mintyukov are still out on the horizon, with zero guarantee of NHL success.