Spencer_12
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Posts posted by Spencer_12
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4 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:
This was true for most NHLers a decade or two ago, but guys like Jagr and Brind'Amour were early pioneers for in season heavy duty training and it's really taken off with the next generation of players. They don't typically train with the frequency that they do in summer, but now you have year-round sports science programs like this one that prescribe hard weight training, core work, and explosive movements as much for in season workouts as they do for offseason workouts. From that article:
It may be that Carlsson wasn't getting the same guidance on modern in season training methods in Sweden, and that's why Verbeek was adamant about keeping him here and why he and Mike Barwis have come up with an approach that incorporates more rest to allow him to adjust better to the in season strength workouts. But I think you're mistaken in believing that NHLers don't do "summer training" during the season. Modern sports science recommends it, and the majority of these elite athletes are doing it, along with carefully monitoring their dietary intake, regular heat/cold therapy, stretching (remember Cogliano's legendary stretching routines?), and everything else that is required to maintain power and endurance over the 82-game grind. They're all still training their arses off during the season (except for Phil Kessel, of course).
What you’re talking about is a different thing. Maintaining vs building. Your training in the summer is for building, and your training during the season, as what you quoted, is for maintaining. You don’t build during the season because it takes too much energy and requires too much rest to also play a NHL season. Under Carlsson’s program, he’s skipping NHL games so he can build (it’s repeated a whole bunch of times in the article Gorb shared).
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2 hours ago, Gorbachav55 said:
https://www.nhl.com/news/leo-carlssons-agent-on-board-with-plan-to-have-rookie-not-play
This is the best breakdown of the situation that I've seen, with quotes from Carlsson, Carlsson's agent, Terry, and Cronin. Everyone is on board and thinks it's going to be great, even while they acknowledge there are some drawbacks. Terry is the most equivocating in his comments - clearly he'd like to play with Carlsson all the time. But he notes that he understands the plan and is excited for its results.
Boom. And there it is, straight from the the (future) horses mouth:
Carlsson said the off-ice training isn't anything unusual, what he called "hard summer training."
No NHL player does hard summer training while playing an NHL schedule because it’s impossible. As dtsdlaw said, rest is important for building muscle. It’s impossible to do the kind of training required to get stronger (hard summer training), play every game, and get enough rest. Playing only twice a week gives him enough rest from his hard training to make it effective. That article couldn’t have been more clear about what the Ducks are doing with Carlsson. Thanks for sharing it, Gorb.
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20 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:
So you think Verbeek’s plan to make sure Carlsson doesn’t hit a wall is to make him workout harder than everyone else? Explain that.
That’s literally why athletes go through hard training. It’s to build up their body so that they can handle whatever it is they need to do. That’s why a lot of younger players hit that wall because they haven’t developed their body to go through it. By struggling to get through the 82 game season that becomes their training as long as they make it through without getting injured. Based off Verbeek’s quotes about his own experience (and the fact Carlsson came into rookie camp already worn out from the previous season) he wants to try a different way. Instead of playing him in as many games as he can and then letting him train all offseason like everyone else, he’s going to have Carlsson build up his body during the 1st few months of season and avoid the wall entirely. He’ll have a great base to build off of for next summer’s training, and doing it this way he’ll come into next year’s training camp further along with his body than if he would have had a traditional rookie season.
It’s as clear as day to me. I won’t be surprised if come January and the Ducks decide to play him in every game you’ll hear little blurbs like, “Carlsson’s put on some muscle since the start of the season.” Or some other praise regarding his fitness level.
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12 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:
All the healthy scratches do extra work when they don’t play. Most of them will spend some time during the game riding the bike and watching the game on the monitors, and they all try to get extra work in on the ice on game days when they aren’t scheduled to play that night. And regardless of whether they play 82 games or 30 games, they’re all killing it in the weight room all season long. They’re all hammering the bike all season long. They’re doing intense core workouts all season long. This is what pro hockey players do. They don’t just play games, go to practice, and play golf. People have to be incredibly dense to think that Carlsson’s off ice training program is somehow above and beyond what his teammates are doing. Nope! They’re all still crushing the workouts, doing the diet, etc. to maintain strength and endurance for the full 6-8 month grind. The only difference for Carlsson is that Verbeek wants him to get extra rest so he doesn’t hit a wall mid season.
You’re incredibly dense if you think the guys playing 82 games a season are doing the same amount of work off the ice as the ones who are sitting for weeks at a time. The fact you think Carlsson is doing the same program under Verbeek’s plan as someone playing every game like Fowler, or Gudas, or Vatrano, etc. is laughable.
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The reasons the Ducks look the way they do so far:
Defense: Last year the Ducks had one top 4 defenseman (Fowler), and one #5-6 (Shattenkirk). The rest were not NHL players. This year the Ducks have 3 top 4 defensemen (Fowler, Mintyukov, and LaCombe) - 4 when Drysdale is in the lineup - and they have two solid #5’s in Gudas and Lyubushkin. You could argue for Gudas as a #4 so far as well. Vaakanainen has looked solid in his 3 games too.
That’s an insane talent level difference between seasons.
Offense: Carlsson is playing like a #1C. Strome, McTavish and Vatrano are producing early, and the 1st line with Zegras, Terry and Carlsson has looked downright dominate at times. The bottom two lines have chipped in a bit, but they are at least playing to the system and not hurting the team.
Putting a #1C on the team this year obviously makes a huge difference.
Intangibles: Cronin. I won’t give Cronin all the credit considering there’s no way to know what Carlsson and Mintyukov would look like under Eakins this year, and LaCombe only played 2 games at the end of the season last year. Prime Scotty Bowman couldn’t do anything with a team icing that defense last year. Cronin’s certainly got the team organized, and playing to an identifiable style. I think he’s handling the players well so far.
No one was counting on Mintyukov, LaCombe and Carlsson having the kind of impact they are having to start the year. If the two defensemen start struggling that will be difficult to overcome. So far so good.
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8 hours ago, Gorbachav55 said:
I saw something else, I think from Derek Lee, that quoted a "strength and development program." Seravelli also puts those two words in quotes in a tweet. That indicates to me that it's more than just load management. But I don't know where that original quote came from that used the words "strength and development."
Hazy also mentioned during Sunday’s pregame against Boston when this 1st became a story that Carlsson was doing off-ice work on Sunday instead of playing.
People have got to be incredibly dense to think the only thing the Ducks are doing with the extra time he isn’t using to prepare to play/playing is resting him.
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4 hours ago, Gorbachav55 said:
Without knowing the details of the plan, I don't see how you can make this conclusion. I can see many possible reasons that sitting him two games into his season makes sense. Just to name a few (that I've mentioned already):
- Maybe there are specific workouts they want him doing to get stronger and they don't want him recovering from a game or having to play a game the next day.
I can’t see how people don’t understand this. All this talk about managing games and how can he possibly need to sit games out this early as if he’s just chilling on the couch waiting for the next game he plays. It baffles me that people can’t understand there’s more to this approach than simply how many games he’s allowed to play in.
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Verbeek discussed this plan publicly over a week before the NHL season started.
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1 hour ago, dtsdlaw said:
Can we also argue with the execution regarding which games he sits? If it was always part of the plan to sit him tonight, it would have made a lot more sense to sit him in Arizona and play him at home against Boston. He would have had an additional day of recovery after the Dallas game (his first NHL game) before playing his next one, and then he could have just alternated games through this road trip, with 3 days of rest between each contest.
I don’t think the only concern with this plan is how much rest he gets between games. It’s how much other things they can do with him between him needing to get ready between games. The way the Ducks did it, Carlsson gets 4 days off between playing if he plays on Thursday. Having a longer block of time to train before needing to interrupt and focus on other things (preparing the body for a game) allows for more gains to come from that training.
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2 hours ago, Sexlaf15 said:
well this is a lot less understandable. 2 straight games he’s gonna go 5 days between games. Seems overkill. I understand the second half of a back to back, but I don’t really get this.
This actually makes more sense than just missing one game. Looking at the schedule, he’s probably only getting in one hard day of training (Sunday) if he’s playing in Ohio on Tuesday. Monday would have to be a light day with the travel and getting his body ready to play for Tuesday night. By missing Tuesday’s game as well he gets a full block of days to push his body and recover for potentially playing on Thursday. It sucks because everyone really wanted to see Carlsson vs. Fantilli, but if developing his body is the goal (and I agree with the approach the Ducks are taking) then it does make more sense for him to miss back to back games compared to just one.
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I don’t know why Stamkos would do that if he has a decent year. Killorn just turned 34 and Stamkos turns 34 in February. I think the Ducks would have to sign him to a similar deal as Killorn to get him to come here. If Stamkos takes a shorter deal he’s probably going to a legit contender.
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45 minutes ago, tommer-1 said:
Might be hard to measure the impact of the last 4 seasons. I’ve said before, there sole identity over the last 4 seasons is “Losers”. That’s it. Not hard to play against, not fast, not high scoring but no D, not defensively sound but no finish - not even dirty. Just losers. Doormats.
The only way to fix it is to start winning. Might need to move a guy or two to shake up the dynamic in the room.
This doesn’t make any sense. There’s already been a shake up in the room with bringing in Killorn and Gudas, and Fowler is the only player on defense who played a lot of games last year. That’s essentially a whole new unit compared to a year ago. There’s also pretty much an entire new coaching staff. I’d say that’s enough of a shake up.
It’s going to take more than a few weeks of preseason and a handful of preseason games for everyone to get used to Cronin’s way of playing. The other issue is there’s a lack of talent on defense. There’s Drysdale that’s still very young and missed an entire season, and the rest of the talent on defense has no pro experience. The defense is going to be a problem all year, and when the defense can’t move/control the puck consistently it makes every other part of the game struggle too. That’s been happening all preseason.
This team has been deep in the dumpster for awhile, and it’s going to take even more time and patience to get out of it. There’s no shortcuts. Hopefully as the season goes on they’ll make incremental improvements, and by the end of it there will be a nice base to work off. Verbeek essentially said this is what he’s looking for this season.
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Carlsson could have had 4-5 points last night against the Coyotes. That was an impressive game for him during an overall stinker for the team. Hopefully his spill into the boards isn’t serious.
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16 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:
I love that Carlsson is staying up and I'm surprised so many of you are surprised by that decision. He looked ready to me.
I think the surprising thing for people is Verbeek is committed to keeping him up for the full year right from the start. Things can always change, but usually you don’t hear a solid commitment like that.
I think this is a bit of an innovative approach. I felt like unless Carlsson was playing very well and putting up points it would be better for him to go to San Diego/Sweden, play fewer games, and spend more time in the weight room and working on the skills that he needs to improve. As of now, the Ducks are seemingly going to essentially be doing this, except at the NHL level. I think this shows a huge commitment to Carlsson that the Ducks are willing to burn a year off his ELC just so their staff can be the ones developing him and keeping an eye on him. He might make the whole thing moot by his play, but if he doesn’t take the league by storm early and the Ducks keep him up anyway, then I hope Carlsson really appreciates the Ducks commitment to him.
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And that’s 3/3 from Verbeek regarding RFA contracts. Trust the process.
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12 minutes ago, Sexlaf15 said:
One Ducks fan asked why Drysdale doesn’t sign a one-year, prove-it deal at a lower salary. I’m not convinced that option is open to him. Team and agent aren’t publicly talking, but it’s believed the Ducks want term.
This is interesting. I can see how this benefits the Ducks if they can get Drysdale cost controlled for 3 years or so and still keep his QO lower at the same time for the next negotiation.
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41 minutes ago, BombaysTripleDeke said:
I’m glad that he got waived. I’d rather zellweger/minty get games in until drysdale signs. I’d go with zellweger on the opening night roster but minty has had some good moments and a bit more size that verbeek may value more.
If you just go off last night then it should be Mintyukov. That was as legit of a regular season NHL game that you‘ll see in preseason, against the Kings A roster, and Mintyukov looked the best out of our young defensemen. That was a real solid game from him.
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21 hours ago, dtsdlaw said:
I can’t help but wonder if we nabbed Thompson simply because someone else is already banged up and we just haven’t heard about it yet.
Possibly Lyubushkin. He hasn’t played in the last 3 games, and he’s not in the lineup tonight against the Kings.
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1 hour ago, Gorbachav55 said:
And this makes sense with both sides feeling they are doing the right thing. The Ducks were protecting the health of a young player when the team had nothing to play for. The player was trying to get back in the lineup to play (and also to improve his contract status). Since the Ducks wouldn't let him play, the player wants some compensation for being forced (in his mind) into a more detrimental contract status.
Drysdale just has no leverage unless he can prove some sort of grievance against the organization.
From Friedman’s podcast, there’s no push for an investigation, and Drysdale doesn’t want to make it a big deal (accusing the Ducks of contract manipulation would make it a huge deal). So it really just comes down to Drysdale being frustrated the team is using his service time as an advantage in negotiations.
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Friedman was on the press conference call for the Zegras contract announcement and asked about Drysdale’s injury timeline. It starts at 4:30. Verbeek is pretty clear that he was going to miss at least 6 months with the injury he had. That would have put him out until at least the end of April, so he had no chance at getting back for the regular season.
What’s interesting is Verbeek mentions having a conversation about this with Drysdale a few weeks before training camp. That leads me to believe Drysdale did probably feel like he could have came back and played a few games before the end of the season, but Verbeek once again told him there was no way. The fact that this was still being talked about between Drysdale and Verbeek 2 weeks before training camp does seem to give weight to Friedman’s reporting of Drysdale being a bit frustrated about everything.
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9 minutes ago, dtsdlaw said:
If Lassi is playing well, what about trading him? Rumor is the Ducks weren’t the only team interested in claiming him off waivers.
I suppose it depends how many games Drysdale misses, and just how good Thomson plays. I’m not sure there’s a sweet spot between him playing so well that a team will give up enough to make it worth it for the Ducks, and him showcasing that good play for a long enough time. If he plays really well I’d rather trade/waive Lyubushkin considering he’s only going to be a Duck for this season. Thomson could be an important depth piece moving forward to bridge the gap between Warren and/or Luneau being NHL ready.
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3 hours ago, Fisix said:
Choose 7:
Fowler
Gudas
Hagg
LaCombe
Luneau
Lybushkin
Mintyukov
Thompson
Vaakanainen
Warren
White
ZellwegerLD: Fowler, LaCombe, Vaakanainen, and Haag
RD: Gudas, Lybushkin, and Thomson
Haag/Vaakanainen is the 7th D.
The real dilemma comes when Drysdale comes back if Thomson is playing well. Ottawa will claim him back if the Ducks send him down.
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41 minutes ago, Gorbachav55 said:
The arbitration thing for Drysdale is irrelevant for this season. Two more games would have meant that Drysdale would have been eligible for an offersheet this offseason and for arbitration NEXT offseason. As it stands, Drysdale is not eligible for arbitration until the 2025 offseason, which means that should he sign a one-year, prove-it deal, he'll have to go through this whole process again without arbitration as leverage.
If I had to guess, THAT's the real hang up. Drysdale wants at least two years to get to arbitration, but I'm sure he doesn't want any less than $2 million (and probably more than that). The Ducks simply want to see a player who's completely healthy who can come in and work hard under a new coach. They probably also want to keep the hammer for the next negotiation, so if Drysdale wants two years, he's going to take a much lower salary for it.
I don't think we're going to get any information on this outside of what we've already gotten; Friedman said multiple times that Drysdale's camp isn't interested in leaking anything related to contract negotiations.
This is my thinking as well. I can see Drysdale and his agent trying for at least 2 years at decent money when negotiations started, but at this point with training camp almost over he should be taking that 1 year prove it deal. If he proves himself then he’ll either earn a 8 year high money deal, or he’ll have a really strong case to get paid good money on a bridge with a high qualifying offer at the end of it. Missing training camp with a new coach/system isn’t going to help him get off to a good start.
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Verbeek = Worst GM in Ducks History
in Anaheim Ducks
Posted
I’d imagine there’s no set schedule months out because they are monitoring everything about his program. There’s no sense planning so far out if they need to change the schedule for whatever reason. Clearly they determined that for this week it was going to be more beneficial for Carlsson’s training to play Saturday and not Sunday. It sucks for fans that came to see him play on that day, but I also agree that the bigger picture is far more important.