Gorbachav55

I don't have as big a problem with it as some others do. I'm fine with arbitration rights. As we saw with Terry, it just means that there's a set deadline to try to get things done. And if they don't, the team will get to retain Zegras either way, but the process might not be pleasant. In the meantime, Zegras is motivated to earn his next really big contract, so he'll be working his butt off. And the team will benefit from that. The team will also get a little more time to see what they have in Carlsson and McTavish. If those two guys take off, maybe Zegras moves to wing. If not, maybe he moves back to center. But in three years, the Ducks will have a lot better idea of what their forward unit will look like for what hopefully is their window to compete for a Cup.

The only thing that bothers me about that is I don't think Strome and Carlsson are complements for each other. Both are passers. However, I would love to see Verbeek sign one more winger for the season to bolster the lineup. There just isn't any depth on the wing right now.

Why do you think this? Every piece about arbitration I've ever read talks about both the team side and the player side presenting arguments for their figure, sometimes including packets of data and comparable contracts. Not all players attend, but some do and they've written about how their opinions of their organization are affected as a result. It seems there is a decent amount of discussion, and you have to present evidence for why your figure is supportable. Otherwise, as people have said, you could present the minimum and hope the arbitrator splits the difference. Obviously, the Ducks had support for their number. I find it hard to believe that support was nearly as credible as the support Terry had for his $8 million figure, and thus would require a lot more argumentation and discussion. Or it would require comparisons to players who really aren't all that comparable to Terry.

It sounds like the team wants Carlsson to play center right from the beginning. So if he makes the team, I assume he'd be in the middle. But that still leaves the question of whether you'd rather keep Zegras as a center or Strome as a center. I think long-term, you move both to the wing and you hope Gaucher becomes a solid 3C. But for next season, one of them is going to have to play center, especially now that Lundestrom is out. I think this makes it even more likely that Zegras pushes for a bridge deal, say three years at $7.25 per year.

Let's do some lineup speculation assuming the team signs Zegras. I think there are two big questions: 1) Will Carlsson make the team? 2) How will the centers shakes out, primarily between Zegras and Strome? If Carlsson makes the team, I would go with something like this: Killorn - Zegras - Terry Henrique - McTavish - Strome McGinn - Carlsson - Vatrano Jones - Nesterenko/Groulx - Carrick I'm not wild about Carlsson's wingers, but those are two veterans, one of whom is a grinder and can protect the kid a little bit and the other can put the puck in the net. You could also switch Killorn and McGinn, the theory being that Carlsson might need a little more help and Zegras needs a little more muscle, but I hate the idea of McGinn playing that much. This puts one distributor on each line (Zegras/Strome/Carlsson). I think long-term, I like Killorn with Carlsson, and the team is going to need to add another winger for Zegras and also hope Nesterenko, Pastujov, Tracey, or Perreault can play top-6 minutes in place of Henrique. If Carlsson doesn't make the team: Killorn - Zegras - Terry Henrique - McTavish - Vatrano? McGinn - Strome - Regenda? Nesterenko? Jones - Nesterenko/Groulx/Gaucher? - Carrick It might not seems like it on its face, but it thins out the team quite a bit. The top line is still solid, but the second line doesn't have a distributor, and I don't like Strome as a third line center. He's pretty terrible defensively and needs a scorer alongside him to maximize his value. In the long run, you'd hope for something like this: Killorn - Carlsson - Terry Zegras - McTavish - Strome Regenda - Gaucher - Pastujov/Perreault/Sidorov Jones/Tracey/Myatovic - Groulx/Lundestrom - ????Wiebe?Colangelo? But that's many years away and a lot of players will be traded or bust between now and then.

Actually, if he does the same thing he did with this one, he'll ask Cronin to delay the start of training camp by an hour so he can finish negotiating the deal.

I don't disagree, but that just reinforces my point. If he's going to be a 90-point winger who just pours in the offense, then $9 million is great, but he hasn't been that yet, and I'm not convinced he will be. It's certainly in his reach, but he's not there yet. I'd love to see him paired with a better center who can allow him just to be himself on offense. Then we might see that offensive explosion that makes him worth the big bucks.

I also think you underplay just how awful he was last season on defense. He was also bad the season before, but he was able to generate enough offense to compensate for it. Last year, the numbers were pretty abysmal. I think there are mitigating factors there, namely that the entire team was the worst ever on defense last season. Terry, whose defensive numbers were very good until last year, took a hit as well. So I'm willing to give Zegras a little bit of a pass. But he needs to prove that he's not going to give back all of his offense. I don't mind paying Zegras long-term, but I'm not going higher than $7.9 million at this point. I'd be fine bridging him for a few years and seeing if he can correct some of the defensive lapses. If he can, then I pay him the $9 - $10 that he's shown he's worth. But if he's willing to sign for 8 years under $8 million today, I'd do it.

It's funny that even after this deal, the Ducks are $7.3 million below anyone else's cap hit. Now, to be fair, Arizona's cap hit includes eight guys who haven't played in the league since 1997, but still.

Don't get me wrong, I feel that way, too. As I've said, I still don't know enough about Verbeek to form any conclusions yet, but this summer would go a decent way toward that. This contract is good, but it's undermined by the way it got done. Had this gone to arbitration, my opinion of Verbeek would have taken a huge hit. As it stands, it remains fairly neutral, but I'm more skeptical than I was before that Verbeek has the ability to run a Cup contending team.

I'm glad this got done and I think it's a very good deal for both parties. I'm happy to have Terry around for another seven years. Alright, Verbeek, you're testing me, but you got it done. Now let's see what happens with Zegras and Drysdale.

Yep! Someone had said the meeting was at 9 am so I was assuming it was already in process. I'm glad to be wrong.

Talk about waiting until the last minute. I'm glad it got done.

Lol! That's what I get for posting too soon. I'm happy to eat my words.

I expect Killorn to wear an 'A', but I would be surprised if he's the captain. In addition to being a little weird that he hasn't even played a game for the organization, it also has the potential to go all kinds of sideways if they have to buy him out in three years.

I'm not the biggest Lundestrom fan, but in a season that still probably wouldn't mean anything, I was looking forward to seeing if he could be a useful player under a new coach. For his sake, I hope he can come back healthy and try to get his career going in the right direction. In the meantime, I'm hoping we can see if Groulx will be a player. My guess is that Gaucher starts in the AHL, but there's always the chance he impresses and gets some games with the Ducks.

I'm thinking Groulx is more likely, but if Gaucher has a good enough camp, maybe he gets a few games.

He was twice as valuable as each of those guys three seasons ago. You continue to ignore his defensive value, which is why analysts were raving about Terry BEFORE his breakout season. And it's why his value is a lot closer to $8 than it is to $4.5.

I think there are very few amounts Verbeek could give Terry where I'd be upset with it. It would take an 8x$8 million deal or more for me to question it. And even then, I'd just be happy we got him signed. Mostly, there's no reason for it to have gotten this far. We'll see if if something gets signed in the next 24 hours, but Stephens reported that, to his knowledge, the two sides weren't close as of last night. Terry is one of the Ducks' best players (maybe their best player at this point), he's still in his prime and will be for several years, and he plays a position at which the organization is very light on talent. Signing him should have been in the top 3 priorities for Verbeek this offseason. It shouldn't have gone to arbitration.

I think these guys, particularly the ones who have worked together before, have a relatively close relationship. I doubt the conversation would go exactly as you're describing verbatim, but I would not be surprised if these guys reach out to each other for thoughts.

Yes

But who the heck cares about overpaying the player in arbitration? It's for a year or two. It won't have any bearing on the next Ducks team where salaries actually matter, other than the precedent. And I'd rather overpay him by a little bit (if you even agree that $7 million is an overpayment) and set the message that the Ducks are an organization that takes care of its players, than send the message that the Ducks are penny-pinching misers who aren't concerned about winning.

I think you're the only one who the thinks the $8 million is as big a joke as $4.5. The former is an inflation of his value, but there are ways you could see him getting there (i.e. not playing on the worst team in the NHL). On the other hand, there's no realistic world where Terry is worth less than $5 million.

Debrincat did have arb rights. He is one year further along than Terry. So this is pretty similar. I appreciate that Terry hasn't publicly requested a trade. As soon as he does, his value drops. That said, it's possible he has privately requested one. Maybe Verbeek doesn't have any good suitors. Or maybe suitors want the certainty of a contract before making that deal. I think that was a lot of the issue with the Debrincat deal - no one wanted to trade for him without the contract being assured. Debrincat let it be known that there were only a few places he was willing to sign. So that decreases the value of any deal as well.

No, I think Terry's worth in the marketplace is $6.75 - $7.0. So $2.25 million less vs $1.25 million less (at best). Yeah, that's absurdly low. And I could squint and see a team giving Terry $7.5 million. There's no chance he's worth less than $5 million. $4.5 million is absurd.